Cleaning Kit

"Okay... okay. We're alive. I gotta calm my nerves. Anything in that flask?"

"Well... technically, yes? But-"

"Gimme."

* swig *

*PTHOOOOOOOO *

"Holy... HELL... tastes like... battery acid... and gasoline!!!"

"Funny you should say that-"

"From now on I'm only drinkin' stuff that's labeled. The Sour Mash ain't empty, right?"

"... Well..."

HanoverFist · 659
I have an emergency cache under the floorboards... — MrGoldbee · 1390
Transmogrify

Hmm, This becomes Interesting when you engage and evade an aloof enemy with transmogrify, and the enemy become: "Aloof, Massive, Cannot move".

Does anyone know how to resolve these keywords? I treat this as an enemy that won't engage the investigator automatically, but when an investigator takes an engaged action, every investigator at the same location is considered engaged too.

randyt1027 · 1
I think the massive keyword is leading, since the enemy counts to be engaged with every investigator. Aloof means the enemy didn't engage but there is no engage step. Compare Zoey ability and interaction with massive enemies. — Tharzax · 1
I recommend checking out the mythos busters discord for rules questions, they have a really friendly community and dedicated channel there. But the answer is that an aloof massive enemy cannot be engaged (by the engage action) because of massive. It is treated as engaged with everyone at the location if it is ready, and it is treated as engaged with noone and cannot be attacked if it is exhausted. — NarkasisBroon · 10
Cleaning Kit

I would say the level 0 Cleaning Kit is one of the best cards of Hemlock Vale, sitting in the relatively uncontested Accessory Slot and adding huge value to anything with slightly scarce ammo (Lightning Gun, Shotgun, Old Shotgun and especially the Ornate Bow) and also to other off-class cards which use supplies (Fingerprint Kit, Chainsaw, Strange Solution, Thieves' Kit). So, does the upgraded version perform quite so well? For me, not quite.

At one extra supply, the Cleaning Kit (3) won't go much further than it's level 0 counterpart - and usually decks built around Cleaning Kit in general will have other means to make supplies go farther, such as Emergency Cache ••• and occasionally Contraband. The main aspect of this therefore is the utility of the +2 boost, which is one per turn given it exhausts the Cleaning Kit.

For over-succeed gun builds making use of a shotgun (Old or otherwise), most will use Custom Modifications. In these cases, the Extended Stock upgrade achieves the same effect as a persistent boost and for just 2 XP rather than the 6 XP you would use on two copies of Cleaning Kit (3). What's more, Custom Modifications is also a candidate for the perennial Guardian-enabler Stick to the Plan, making it dramatically more reliable. Even discounting Custom Modifications, cards like Enchant Weapon will usually provide a bigger one off boost. The only niche it becomes useful is on Guardians who can't take high level Guardian cards (and so can't access a fully tricked out Custom Modifications or wouldn't be keen on guns anyway - Parallel Roland Banks for the former with an Old Shotgun and Wilson Richards for the latter). Even then, 6 XP is a lot to spend when the base Cleaning Kit is a level 0.

On the side of generically providing a boost, I'd say other cards often do this better. Girish Kadakia provides fat soak with an unlimited +2 per turn boost, and costs just 1 more XP than the upgraded Kit (and you can still keep the level 0 Kit for its supply utility alongside). Likewise, Well Prepared can provide stronger boosts if used well. Even the humble Reliable accesses a persistent +1 for the asset you want to be using at much less XP. While Girish and/or Well Prepared are extra assets you need to get into play, Guardians love Ever Vigilant on Stick to the Plan - so additional assets typically do not have the same opportunity cost usually that they do for other classes.

EDIT: People say this is a false equivalence because of the cost to source the card and get it into play and the resource cost (which I thought was too obvious to mention). It's a cost I would take personally as the boosts on the other cards are more flexible, just flagging the discussion below.

Overall, I'd say there's vanishingly few reasons to use the upgraded Cleaning Kit over its level 0 counterpart - there's just better ways to get boosts and most of them cost less XP as well. What would have made this better would have been adding more icons to the card (e.g. having it as ) so it too could have been a target of Well Prepared, but even then I'd still say it doesn't offer enough for its price.

HungryColquhoun · 2161
As a Tool, Kymani can take it. — MrGoldbee · 1390
True, but I still don't see any particular utility so didn't think it was worth mentioning. I guess you could run both Thieves' Kit (3) and Cleaning Kit (3) to over-succeed on Thieves' Kit and get more resources - but it feels like a waste of time when you can just pair level 0 Thieves' Kit with usual Rogue resource economy events. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
This review in comparing other stat boosting cards seems to entirely gloss over the fact that adding an extra card to your combo is in and of itself a cost. In comparing to well prepared for example I would be all too happy to pay one exp to staple my well prepared to another card I'm already paying for and using. — Spamamdorf · 1
It's not covered in my review because I don't infantilise the people reading it and I assume people will know basics such as opportunity cost and be able to make their own decisions. If you want a review that states the basics so clearly every time then write your own review, personally I think it's unnecessary. However, to spend some time addressing this, particularly for guns where this should see use if it were good then as mentioned Custom Modifications and Stick to the Plan are more or less an assumed cost of an effective firearms deck. So, all things being equal, Cleaning Kit (3) then becomes the unnecessary extra cost to the gold standard engine for guns. Using Cleaning Kit 0 will generally come with a support cost as mentioned to work well (Emergency Cache [3], Contraband, etc.), so if you're looking for a lean uncomplicated deck then likely Cleaning Kit isn't the card for you. I mean honestly Unexpected Courage with the level 0 Cleaning Kit provides half of the benefit here - of course there's a cost getting an Unexpected Courage in your hand when you want it there, but I wouldn't say the opportunity cost break offered by Cleaning Kit (3) is anywhere near worth the XP needed for the upgrade. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
I take the general point of this review, but I disagree with a lot of the analysis. There will almost always be more expensive cards in other slots that provide bigger value, so pointing to Girish (a 4xp ally) and claiming that invalidates the use of 3xp accessory is a false equivalence. What if my ally slot is already filled? The other suggested alternatives (Custom Modifications, Well Prepared, Enchant Weapon, Contraband, and Emergency Cache 3) also come with downsides, if nothing else that they require additional deck space as well as costing xp of their own. Deck space is so tight these days, is it really worth it to run support cards for my support cards when I could have all the bonuses on one copy of Cleaning Kit 3? I agree that many decks will find the level 0 Cleaning Kit sufficient, but I think the level 3 version provides more value than this review indicates. — Pseudo Nymh · 40
@HungryColquhoun "Not infantalizing" looks a lot like "having no idea what you're talking about" when you make direct comparisons and state that it is "cheaper" to buy a well prepared than to upgrade your cleaning kit however. Because that's just flat out false. It is in no way cheaper to run multiple stat boosting cards alongside your ammo reloading cards when you could get a card that does both at the same time. No one says "I dont run Pete Sylvester (2) because I could just run track shoes and Earthly Serenity for cheaper" that's crazy talk and has nothing to do with opportunity costs. — Spamamdorf · 1
Spamamdorf, looks like you do an awful lot of reviewing other people's reviews rather than properly contributing to the community and writing them yourself. Why don't you do that if I have no idea what I'm talking about? XP wise, it is cheaper - it's clear what I'm talking about from the context of the review. And the Peter Sylvester comparison is baseless and you know it - he has infinite healing and a boost as a level 0 card. The comparison here is more like people running base Sylvester over the upgrade, which plenty of people do. You're leaving a lot of these comments on my reviews TBH, so much so that I think you're seeking them out. As mentioned, write your own stuff and actually properly contribute if you feel like the current standard here is not up to scratch. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
Psuedo Nymh as mentioned the +2 boost is a one per turn, so I think it is appropriate to draw comparisons to Extended Stock on Custom Modifications where it's not for a major category of assets people would use this on (Firearms) when 95% of people will take Custom Modifications. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
Edit added in anyway, you can all calm down now. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
Adding discussion to reviews is adding to the community. I mostly just comment on reviews that miss things in their arguments, if those happen to be you more often than not... — Spamamdorf · 1
Telling someone they don't have a clue what they're talking about is not discussion, it's flat out rude and definitely detracts from a community. I'm open to discussion, I'm not open to people giving the community a bad name and lowering the tone. If you want to discuss things, then discuss, but don't take jabs at people while doing so - it's not hard to do. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
As a last point your criticism on my Katana review is entirely contrary to your criticism here. There you said I was "overselling the problem of getting 3 damage in one action once a turn", even though this almost definitely requires extra cards to support which have an opportunity cost (e.g. Steady Handed) and that was the point of my review, which seeing as you're supporting that point here then by your own words would mean you have "no clue what you're talking about" over there, no? Good job nothing can be deleted on here, isn't it? — HungryColquhoun · 2161
Get a room. — MrGoldbee · 1390
Lol — HungryColquhoun · 2161
Vamp

This card is absolutely insane.

With level 0 fine clothes on, you pass all of these tests with no commits unless you draw a tentacle and there is no penalty for tentacle draw. That's an extraordinary amount of tempo in one card, potentially even for free, and just shoots Alessandra to the top of the list. Absolutely broken card!

drjones87 · 165
Leaving aside the XP cost, there's the fact that a lot of the time you won't be able to get value out of all 4 options: most enemies with doom are Cultists, who will die to the 2 damage. And, of the ones that are likely to go together, (Agility + Combat) results in a slightly better Cheap Shot (+1 damage and move the evaded enemy) and (Agility + Book) results in a barely-better Breaking and Entering. While I do agree that it looks a bit strong, even for its XP cost, I think it's not as dangerous as something like Old Keyring (3) + Shed a Light. It's a workhorse, don't get me wrong, one that honestly looks like it'll find play for years to come, but I don't think it needs taboo. — NightgauntTaxiService — MrGoldbee · 1390
“Absolutely Broken Card” might be an oversell. I think it’s pretty rare that an enemy has a doom on it AND can’t be killed with two damage AND needs to be evaded/moved AND is standing at a location with a clue on it. Even in the rare situation that you get all four payouts at once Vamp is still a 3xp event with at least one supporting card (Fine Clothes) so it’s not a crazy amount of return on investment. While I agree Vamp is a versatile card that will likely see play (I can think of a couple of boss fights where Vamp is a great tech card), compared to the power level of other 3xp cards (Enchant Weapon, Eucatastrophe, Higher Education, and Ariadne’s Twine all spring to mind) it’s far from broken. — Pseudo Nymh · 40
Occult Reliquary

Sure, this is a great card, and it will see a lot of play, but it kind of makes me sad, how it ruins this whole "slot game".

Why bother youself with Familiar Spirit or Book of Shadows if you want more arcane slots? Blessed/cursed will cover a lot of mystic assets, just pack this.

Why bother youself with Bandolier as a guardian for sidearm? Just pack this and Enchanted Blade or Blessed Blade while keeping your hands for a big gun.

You got the idea. Yes, this costs you 3 XP, but for that XP you gain stability, actions and resources that you would spend to "fix" your slots. Not a fun of such game design.

Lycher · 1
"Enchanted Blade" won't work. The Bandolier has been butchered by "Brand of Cthugha" before. — Susumu · 330
Can't you say the same of Charisma? — MrGoldbee · 1390
Book of Shadows would be a "maybe" if it was 1xp and $4. — MrGoldbee · 1390
I'm not sure I really get the point of more Arcane slots in the first place, especially if they're used to house a bless/curse asset only (which aren't very good outside dedicated decks for these)? Usually you can have a clue-finding spell, a damage dealing spell - and that basically covers all your needs. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
And for Guardians, again do they really need an extra hand slot? They have a lot of good one-handed weapons as it stands. I don't see why you wouldn't just take Blessed Blade (4) without Occult Reliquary - it's a great weapon and then you still have a hand free for whatever else you'd want. — HungryColquhoun · 2161
I'm not sure how often I see Bandolier, Familiar Spirit, and especially Book of Shadows in play. Charisma and Relic Hunter have existed a long time without breaking anything. Since Hemlock Vale just gave us a bunch of shiny new Bless/Curse cards I suspect we'll see Occult Reliquary get a lot of play for a while, but I'm not sure that it's breaking anything or crowding out any viable decks. — Pseudo Nymh · 40